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Today we are joined by Jackie O, former attorney turned technology executive, and expat extraordinaire who has been crisscrossing the globe for years. She empowers Black women to leave meaningful lives abroad.

Show Notes:

Jackie O, much like the former First Lady, is a trendsetter in her own way. At the age of 16, she applied to a study abroad program and has been hooked ever since. Jackie isn’t so much of an expat as a global citizen. Listen along to the podcast as she shares what living life abroad with a two year old is like. Hint: It is an amazing experience and will have you waiting impatiently for the world to open back up.

Today’s show will cover:

  • Growing up as dual citizen
  • Travel lust
  • Trusting that you will be okay traveling solo  
  • Traveling the world with a toddler in tow
  • Slow travel
  • Making money abroad
  • Finding nannies and childcare abroad

Find Jackie O: Website | Instagram

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Transcript for Interview with Jackie O.

00:00:14 April G.
Hello, This is April, and welcome to another episode of the other side of 40. Today we have on Jackie Almost holiday, and she is someone who loves to travel. So I’m so excited about this. Even though we are on a travel ban, we can’t go anywhere. But hopefully, when the world wakes back up, we can go anywhere we want. Thio. So Jackie O is a former attorney turned technology executive who is also an original Ogi Digital nomad and serial expat. She has been crisscrossing the globe for over 25 years. Jackie is currently slow traveling full time with her toddler daughter, Ruth. She empowers black women to lead magical lives abroad. Isn’t that I mean, that sounds like awesome intro. So let’s get into it. So my signature question Tell us about your awakening moment.

00:01:15 Jackie O.
So I think for me there were several awakening moments, but I think the first started when I was just a little bitty girl and I grew up in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and I am blessed that I had parents and a family. He wore very much determined to expose me to the international, too. I mean, I always say, and I probably say I grew up in the hood, but I say I grew up in the hood, not in the negative sense, although I definitely grew up in the heart of the crack epidemic and all that stuff. But I also grew up surrounded by a lot of just really good people who just empowered me toe. Want more to doom or to read books? My mom was buying me books and encyclopedias from when I was 80. Bitty I had my passport, both my passport because I’m adult citizen of Nigeria and the U. S. Since I was at least one or two years old. So it was always about, you know, there’s more than the Bach, and I knew that I always wanted to see more than a block, and it started off just, you know, through books and through encyclopedias. I remember when my mom had the person come to our house and, you know, sell us the World Book and, you know, from there because, you know, I grew up before Google before Internet. Before all I remember I remember having the whole set of encyclopedias, but we didn’t own uh, my uncle owned them. Okay, You know, they’re not cheap, so they’re not cheap. It all a tall and so I’m just going and just going. Remember, every summer, you know, most libraries would have reading clubs and reading programs and reading contest, and I would win them all just because I would read just so many books. And I was just so passionate about learning and discovering, and that curiosity was always nurtured for me. So I always knew that I never wanted to necessarily box myself in. But of course, as you get older and you learn more and you get wise and you get more experiences, you just continue to push yourself and push yourself. But I think that awakening moment for me was really discovering that do not ever let someone else defined you do not ever box yourself in, but just but just go with it like be your own person, determine your own path, and when one door shuts, another door will open.

00:03:25 April G.
I mean, that’s I remember spending so much time in books, and I loved reading, and it it just takes you to magical places. It takes you all over the world. Whether or not you’re reading fiction or nonfiction, it really you can really immerse yourself in them.

00:03:42 April G.
So how did that get you to where you are now? So you that was your first awakening when you’re young that you really want to travel the world. But at some point, you decided to do it. Yes.

00:03:53 Jackie O.
At some point I decided to it. And that is when I waas when I officially officially I mean, I was I was traveling Ah, lot as a kid. But when I was 16 years old, I was like, You know what? I am over Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Um, you know, all like the Rodney King stuff. All that had gone down so that, you know, this is pre black lives matters, but still black lives matters. I was like, You know what? Like this is just not This is not for me. And I once again went back to the handy dandy libraries out. And this is why, until this day, I still donate to public libraries regularly. Um, I went to the public library research on my own, how to find a scholarship to study abroad. And I didn’t care where I was going as long as it’s gonna be fully paid for. Because my mama didn’t have the 5 to 6 grand at that time that it caused the study abroad for a year. Um and so I researched. I got wrote my application on a typewriter. My mama gave me the 25 cent the quarter stamp thio about that application and and I would say from there it was probably 6 to 8 weeks before, you know, I you know, I did an interview and I was on a plane, um, flying into Germany to study abroad for a year.

00:05:04 April G.
Where do you end up studying?

00:05:07 Jackie O.
I’m so in Germany. I studied in Germany. I studied a very small, very small village. My village was so small that there was not a school for kids to Lawrence. So we had to be bused to the next town, which was slightly larger.

00:05:19 April G.
Wow. Wow. So that I mean, I’ve always wanted to study abroad. The most I did was a couple of weeks visiting and traveling. So how did that experience mold into? So that was the beginning of your riel traveling bug, as you know, making your own decisions on where to go. Where did you go next? Where do you go from there.

00:05:42 April G.
So then it was just from there. I just got the bug. I mean, it was, And at that time I was 16. They had this thing called a euro rail pass on, um and so I just took the euro pass. And yes, technically, I was based in Germany, but my host family happened to be really young, and they were in their 20 So they were super open and super liberal. And I took that euro pass, and I was crisscrossing Eastern and Western Europe. I was lucky enough to have a host family who was from the former. Um, Eastern Germany s so like that in East Berlin. And they have family, etcetera. So I was everywhere. I was Czech Republic, I I went everywhere. I had a really good time. Bulgaria, like places that you’re just like what? What was this little black girl going there? Um, I went there. I got connected with African communities. Got my hair braided because, like, whatever black people or you could get your hair braided sure can get nothing else. You could make sure you get your hair right s good food and get your hair braided. Eso I just and for me that just taught me like a fierceness of, like, being independent of just figuring stuff out. I remember at one point I had taken a four day trip. Thio? Was it Budapest? Yeah, it was Budapest. And I didn’t understand the proper directions in terms of when my bus was returning back, and I missed it. Oh, my goodness me is being 16 years old stuck, uh, in a former communist country by myself, That’s really known for, um, a lot of human trafficking happening there. Even at that time on. Do you know what I figured out? I got myself a little hotel, and I booked myself another bus the next day and just figured out like, don’t panic, like, don’t pack freak out. And at 16 that’s a lot to do. I mean, even as a grown woman, now that I am like, I’m like, Wow, I did that as, like, 80 bitty like, because 16 80 bitty You think, you know, stuff you don’t know much, e mean, I would say Europe is a much easier place to do that. I felt like the community there. I mean, just over the European culture was just more amenable. Thio having younger people live and not be tethered toe an adult. Um, that’s what I found, cause when I went, I was 16 and I went to France and it was kind of a tour. So we went around France and stuff, and my teacher was super cool and she let us out as long as we weren’t having didn’t have an official tour activity. She said, Go explore. Um, just, you know, check back in and this is before cell phones. So it was Just check back in. You know, this is the time yourself to be back. Just be back by that time and don’t go alone. Those were the two her only two things. But we’re all 16 17 years old and we were just out and about, uh, checking things out, going to places. And I felt very at ease, like I never felt scared or anything. I mean, it also helps that during the summer months, the, uh, the sun is out very late. Eso I remember we spent a bunch of time we wanted to go to a movie which ended up being a bus. But we wanted to go to a movie and we made plans. We got all excited. We’re like, we’re going to go to a French movie and this is gonna be so much fun. And Dada Dada, I’m mapping the way back because I’m super cautious. I’ve become Mama Bear when I’m especially when I’m with other people. I’m mapping the way back to make sure we don’t get lost on the way home. And then the the movie ended up being an American movie dubbed French any of the actors, so I was like, I don’t know who any of these people are, but it ended up being an American movie. And then on the way home, it was still bright outside. So we got at, like, 10. 30 and it was still sun shining. I was like we could have spent so much time doing other things instead of me making sure that yeah, I could get back to the hotel, but it was super easy on. People are still out. That’s a beautiful yeah, phase out with the strollers. It’s just It’s a different type of lifestyle.

00:09:43 Jackie O.
Yeah, you would have never thought like here at 10 o’clock, you know, you’re basically just going to a club. There’s really nothing else to do at 10 o’clock outside, so the streets are empty, but they’re, you know, everyone’s walking and talking and just having fun. Wow, that’s tough because I felt like every single place I’ve gone has for me has been, for the most part, amazing out, to be honest, probably my least favorite or one of my least favorite places with Iceland. But that is like I don’t like gray skies that much. And I don’t like, um, cooler weather like I’m a hot weather girl like I am definitely like the summer internal summer girl like when it starts to get in the low seventies sixties. Yeah, that’s not working for me. That’s that’s exactly that’s my sweet Swat’s a light sweater. Jeans, boots works perfectly. Mind you, I’ve never lived in a climate like that, but I love the idea of living in a climate like I’m like a cut of source like a tank top of flip flop girl like Like that’s why uniforms pretty much every single day like That’s how I get down when it starts to get cold at that. And the funny thing is, like in high school, I ski like I skied in Germany. Ice was on ski team. I was ski club and like, some kind of way, you know, when I turned 25 plus, it was just like, Oh, a cold weather place.

00:11:18 Jackie O.
Uh, so eso that pants said, probably one of my favorite places is definitely Indonesia on not Bali. I’m actually not a big fan of Bali, like, um, but like Joe Jakarta, Java, like Minato, all those other islands, like fascinating, fantastic. Like diving the most amazing food in the world, most beautiful culture. I also speak Indonesian. I did a Fulbright in Indonesia, so I’m just like I I love, like exploring all the different islands because they’re all so different, like they’re just so different and you can go from one island to another and the food could be been different. They also like the spices, which I’m a Nigerian girl. We like our spices. We like Pepe. We like a hot food. So Indonesians love the hot, spicy food too. So that probably would be in my top three. And then, of course, I’d have to put Nigeria in there because I am a Nigerian girl again. Love like the hot weather. Love Nigerian food. Nigerians. Well, I’m crazy, but they’re still like people and like they will, you know, you’ll have your back in a second, like so, like come for you don’t come after you after them 10 times harder and it also just being in like in a city like Legos. It teaches you just have the hustle because when you’re in a mega city, a city with like 25 million people on a good day on like a bad day, I swear, upwards of like 30 million people. There’s so many people you can’t even breathe. It just brings out like an aggressiveness and a perseverance that you just don’t get just being nearly did. I mean, there’s no city of Pittsburgh, including New York, where I feel that same energy of just like like it’s just It’s just it’s almost like electrifying. Now. This is not this in New York. Folks in New York definitely has amazing energy, but it’s just it’s just something when you just got that many people in one place like, Oh, it’s almost like when you see a National Geographic like a school of fish and you see, like thousands of them, just sure. And you’re like, What if one of them turns? It goes the other way. You’re like, Hey, probably won’t make it it.

00:13:18 April G.
Well, you know, I think we got the best insight of Nigeria from the new special event. Ors the comedian. Have you seen special? No. Yeah. So she takes you? Yes. She takes you home during the special. Okay, so she talks about it, and but she actually shows you, like around. And I think you kind of get the best feeling of, you know, Unfortunately, we do a lot of showing and telling of a lot of cities, not a lot of cities on the entire continent of Africa. So it was just very cool to see, Like her home, her parents, the city. She talked to the people on the street. Um, so You should check that out. Uh, I think it’s on Netflix. I think it’s on Netflix. Yeah,

00:14:08 Jackie O.
I definitely will Check it out. I love when people have represent. Um, Nigel, I know when I’m Anthony Bourdain did his big special. I was still living in Nigeria, and it was one point came and then remember when it aired as well. And people were just like, losing their mind that, like, Nigeria, particularly Lagos, you know, the the bad boy of Africa was getting, you know, a lot of international air place, so I’ll have to check out.

00:14:30 April G.
Yeah, So she basically I mean, what I got out of it is don’t ask anyone for directions. Get your GPS and just bring your GPS with you because,

00:14:40 Jackie O.
uh, maybe it’ll work. Maybe it won’t. We’ll see. Like, froze. Like Like there’s not supposed to be a road here. Well, somebody decided to build one. So there is one. How’s that? Governments matter. Yes,

00:14:50 April G.
it does. Um, So what? What tips would you give? Okay, so a couple I have a couple questions. So what tips would you give someone who’s traveling? Cause now you’re traveling with your toddler? Um, how often. Do you, uh, change locations? And with that, how hard is it? Like, what tips would you give to make that make it easier?

00:15:14 Jackie O.
So I would say, First of all, travel My daughter, who just turned two years old. Her name’s Ruth is probably the most amazing experience ever. Now, remember, I’m on order, Mama. I’m 41. So some of my ripping and running and going to the club days are behind me. Although occasionally you know what? I will show you like girls, how it’s done. Like I’ll show what? L cool. J was talking about what he said around the way, girl. Okay. Okay. Girls like me. I want to talk about it. That’s okay. Yeah, but so it’s So what I’m looking for when I travel is a little bit, like, different, right? Like, it’s not necessarily that I’m doing, like, these late nights where I’m just trying to, like, experience in all. Including, like the men, the clubs, the food, all that stuff, right? I did all that. And I don’t I don’t put the past nobody like twenties, thirties, forties. Whatever you want. That’s what you’re into. Go and do it because there was so much that were taken in the world, right? Um, but But now it’s just different. And that’s the reason why we slow travel, right? Because like, she is like a little girl and like she does need some sources, some sense of like normalcy and routine, right? So when on average, we probably spend at least six months, like sometimes as long as, like, 9, 10 months in one different location, like I rent like a house like we set up shop right? She usually gets like a nanny, and I always say, especially if you’re a single mama and you want to do this lifestyle, get support because it is stressful, like going to a new city like it’s stressful, just like in general. It’s stressful being a mama like Nola, and I love my daughter. I love spending every single minute with her, I think, because since I’ve left the United States again, I’ve probably become a better mother just because I have more time to focus on her. But I also become a wiser mother in the sense of I know the countries we’re going to, and I know that child care is relatively affordable. Um, which means I can have a day nanny. I can have a night nanny, and it just makes all like some of these two parent households I’m like, Wow, is this what it’s like? Um, just to have that extra set of hands to help you, Um, I would just makes all the difference in the world. And then when you see your kid especially, you know, people, somebody’s Yungas, my daughter who’s two years old, she picks up languages like the way I pick up rocks like young. Yeah, like

00:17:34 April G.
pick up languages. So easy. But part of it, I I will say this part of it is their their own. Native language is so limited, you know, when we’re trying to have a conversation, we’re using big words like conversation, and they’re just trying to say talk. So it’s a lot easier to have get new language when you’re only working with a small part. But that is such a great, um, part of the brain to flex on a on a super early basis. I really wish I was more dedicated with my own Children, um, to get into that, but that will be happening soon. That’s definitely on the horizon. It

00:18:11 Jackie O.
truly justice. And just even to see, like her confidence, right? Like it’s interesting, right? Because I feel like and this is no just to America and maybe it is. But like I feel like in America, we we say we’re child centric and then you go to other parts of the world and you truly see people who are child centric who could

00:18:30 April G.
even say we’re child center here. We cannot know

00:18:34 Jackie O.
if if they were

00:18:35 April G.
saying we’re child centric. I mean, I moved to Florida where So I’m from California in California, super liberal, and you know you can easily get 32 to 3 months off for leave. And that’s you know, that’s a lot for some people and moving to Florida because we’re at it’s ah, at Will State. And technically, California is too. But here they can fire you if you’re pregnant.

00:19:00 April G.
So people you know, there are employers who just asked, Hey, you know when they start seeing you show I’ve heard stories of women who literally get let go because they’re they don’t want to pay for maternity leave or give them leave while there they have to take care of their kids. That’s an entire state. So and I’m sure they’re they’re not the only ones. We’re not child centric. And that’s part of what’s the problem with this pandemic. You know? E mean we’re forcing kids to go back to school, and if we’re really honest,

00:19:34 April G.
all of the education, I mean and I’m a big on education. I love education. I think it’s super important. But if the whole country is behind, the whole country is on the same level. So what are we stressing about? Let’s just kind of relax. Enjoy it, take more time out. But we can’t because the way of country is structured. Oh,

00:19:55 Jackie O.
I couldn’t agree with you more. And even on, like the education front, I just I don’t know, I sometimes I’m like water. Kids really learn in the school.

00:20:02 Jackie O.
I mean, when you look at and I’m not, that I’m really into exams and things, and I’m like there’s kids who graduate from high school who could barely read.

00:20:09 April G.
Yeah, well, it’s that and the fact that if you actually do home schooling, so I have ah, first grader in a third grader

00:20:16 Jackie O.
now and if you Yes, well,

00:20:19 April G.
I have a have 1/10 grader, too, but he’s like, you know, he’s self sufficient like he does his own thing. Um,

00:20:26 April G.
but the little ones, if you actually look up like homeschooling guidelines, if you were to do it at home, they only need 123 hours of education a day. Max three is like do extra stuff like So. So the idea that we have to be in school or the kids have to be in school for six hours a day has nothing to do with how much education they need. And ah, lot of school is just socialization. So it’s odd to me that, like, right now, they’re on line for six hours and I’m like, Well, if half of its socialization and play,

00:21:00 April G.
why are you Why are you on it for the six hours? You should just be on it for three hours from 8 to 10 and call it a day and you have the rest of time. But I do have to say I’m grateful they’re not making us print out anything this year so far. That makes you a tous in the spring because they were still transitioning and they didn’t really know what to do. They’re like, Yeah, it’s

00:21:22 Jackie O.
pretty anymore

00:21:24 Jackie O.
I have

00:21:24 April G.
happened to cause I need one for work, but yeah, but typically, a lot of people don’t know friends who just front at work.

00:21:33 Jackie O.
Yeah, I’ll tell you. But frankly, don’t don’t tell this. So I’m like, Well, where is the printer like? If somebody told me that they need to be to print out something I didn’t need to get something felt. And I was like, Oh, I don’t know what E can Yeah, I can send your signature like, don’t tell you. Um,

00:21:51 Jackie O.
no. So, no, it is very interesting now, Like seeing what’s happening in the United States and just seeing, you know,

00:21:58 Jackie O.
kids basically been shuffled back in the school when clearly it’s not ready like it’s not, and and the expectations on kids that were mask eight hours a day. Yeah. I mean, when people see Ruth and Ruth is too, and she will wear mask, uh, she wears her math face. She works. She has a pinky underneath her mass. Which is why I’m

00:22:16 April G.
asking. Uh,

00:22:17 Jackie O.
but she when people like how do you get your daughter do that? Can’t get my kid to wear mask. And I’m like, Listen, this is not normal like

00:22:25 Jackie O.
that one. Don’t compare kids, cause every kids didn’t but do like this ain’t normal like the same.

00:22:31 April G.
No, I my kids have spent I haven’t taken them to us, so I haven’t taken them to any public space at all, so they haven’t had to wear. I think they wore a mask once. I don’t know where my husband went, but the girls took masks. But that’s it, since since we started, I’m like you’re outside and you’re with family and that’s it. So they play outside pretty much just with each other. Um, but yeah, I I just think I think we just really need to reassess kind of our way of life on and what’s really important and going to school is not particularly that important. Especially right now. It’s high stress kids. I mean, I watch my girls and they’re trying to sit. They are trying their best to sit in front of a computer for, you know, six hours and they’re jumping up and down and running around, and I’m like, I’m trying to be lenient, but not too lenient because I’m like, I know you don’t want to sit there anymore. Like I know you want to, like, run around. But, you know, it’s just uninterested ing We’re in very interesting times.

00:23:35 Jackie O.
Yeah, I just I don’t Yeah, I don’t envy that situation of parents in the U. S right now at all. But you know, my my friends who home school? Because, you know, I’m big in the world school in home, schooling, unschooling. So most of my circle friends. That’s kind of what they have already done. Pre pandemic. So they’re just kind of like it’s pretty much just a normal,

00:23:55 Jackie O.
normal, normal dang. Yeah. So where are you now? So I am in Guatemala. I’m still in Guatemala. Well, will be transitioning to so Guatemala pretty much shut down. Um, pretty early in the in the pandemic closed its borders down on ben. Just pretty much game gave an amnesty stato Anyone who overstay their visa and said like as long as you don’t go nowhere, you’re fine. Um,

00:24:19 Jackie O.
and the little town that we’re in doesn’t have any cases of corporate 19 but that’s because of town. Has has shut itself down as well. Um, and kids similar. Your kids kids under the age of 18 are actually not allowed in public spaces on people over 60. Okay,

00:24:38 Jackie O.
So lucky for us, we’re fortunate enough to live on the beach. Eso the beach has always pretty much been Ruth in our backyard, so we just pretty much do lots of beach activities. Be a like going paddleboarding going kayak, and, like, we’re very much more. Um, and her nanny lives right across the street. So we still kinda maintain that bubble per se. I know that’s the term people in the US or use them that they’re part of my bubble with people who are Yeah. And so and so, you know, she could just She’s still pretty much retains a lot of her routine. She used to go toe Spanish classes with me sometimes, but they’re Spanish school shutdown, so Okay, um, it za pretty much the same old same old, um,

00:25:28 Jackie O.
in terms of I mean, just there’s no tourist anymore. Really? Because everybody’s gone home.

00:25:33 April G.
Yeah. So what do you so

00:25:37 April G.
the expense? You know, that’s always a big question of moving and and re implanting yourself. somewhere else. So what do you do to bridge that gap or not? Gap or make that money? I should just say

00:25:53 Jackie O.
things. One. I think that what people think it costs to live this lifestyle would actually cost or two different things, right? Like people are like, Oh, she’s galloping all around the world like it must be so expensive and it really is not because why again, I’m in a small village and I’m in a small village that’s a very touristy village, so that makes it slightly higher. But I still live on less than $1000 a month, and I left the Bay area this time. You know, when I was up in the Bay Area briefly and like, my rent in the Bay Area alone was $3500. Eso So I went from spending $3500 just on rant, and probably I think my nanny was about four K a month, right? So, like, those were just That’s not including food, car insurance, any of that stuff. No one likes thio now, just living off like $1000 a month. Um,

00:26:45 Jackie O.
so and then, you know I’m a black woman and I’m a Nigerian. So, like there’s like, I put all the caps and hustle like all of them. Like Like, if I If I can’t figure out a way to make a least $1000 a month. Yeah,

00:27:01 Jackie O.
shame on me. I need to get every single card I got revoked S o Do you do it online, or do

00:27:07 April G.
you look for a position once you

00:27:08 Jackie O.
get there? So So what? I did so I just because I had established myself in the public policy arena like I have been doing that for the last 20 years, That was pretty much easy for me to transition into consultant consulting. And then on top of that, I started coaching other black women on how to move abroad because people were just asking, like checking. You stay in a new country like, Oh, you did two years stand here. You do a six months, then here. Like how the heck are you doing all this? And I’m like, Oh, girl, I got you. Um and, you know, I started with, like, I think, three clients. And then it’s just grown thio where I’m now, I’m just picking and choosing clients that I want and I also teach a course is well, just to kind of get more people in on That’s been the in fact probably that’s almost taking place of like number one in terms of like how I generate income. But then I of course, because I said I’m not durian girl, so I have on like we don’t do broke eso. I have also like a couple of online businesses to write like I have like a shop. I have Etsy shop, I have drop shipping. So you just like you just get out there and you just learn how to like make income. And the thing about it is and I tell all my clients a swell like you should just in any place, even if you still live in America, you should have least at least three different income streams coming in ideally like seven. Like I got seven like because, like one goes away, like people now, like their main source of income, you see, like their job goes away and all of a sudden they got $500 in the bank account and their mortgage is due next month and 1200 like and like that. That shouldn’t be like you should have some sort of you should. Everybody should have some sort of like side hustle Now. It doesn’t necessarily mean you gotta be working on all the time like my auntie store pretty much runs itself like people order. It’s not like I’m packing the stuff like I have somebody who does it all for me, and I just look and make sure there’s no issues right. And then on top of that, there’s things like virtual assistance, which can help your, which can be relatively like affordable. You get a virtual system for five hours a week just to kind of handle some of that, you know, stuff that you just don’t feel like being bothered with. Like I’m a big fan of outsourcing like you outsource what you can. I ain’t cooking. I ain’t cleaning. I’m doing that stuff because it takes away from doing stuff that one brings me money and and to like also stuff that, like I enjoy enough. I love cooking like if you love cooking, going, get in the kitchen and cook right. It’s your thing. If my daughter ain’t really enjoying my food like

00:29:41 Jackie O.
I got, you know, and like, it’s it costs me. Ah, 100 I think $100 a month. And that’s a good salary for my part time. Um, nanny, because I mean yeah, right. And then it’s another $100 a month to have somebody cook for me and then the woman who comes and washes my clothes two times a week each time she washes them, I pay her $15

00:30:09 Jackie O.
and I’m over pan.

00:30:11 Jackie O.
Wow. So it’s like it’s so cheap And you’re also ex supporting people, especially now doing like this pandemic like I’m just trying to think like, what can I get people to do? Like I got a little garden, like All right. Hey, you like it ain’t even that big. Let me pay a farmer. Let’s design a garden outside and e need a landscaper to come cut leaves. I just funny because they don’t have a Facebook that I have a picture of this big old populace. Big old court talking about. I cook that. I mean, I grew that, and it’s just like

00:30:41 Jackie O.
you gotta be us with these people. You didn’t grow up. You might have put that seat that ground with that man’s hill. That seed took care of it like like while you sat on the Internet on your work. So you know, I still try to keep it super real with people like outsourced like I like.

00:30:58 Jackie O.
I’m the outsourcing queen on bit’s easy to do when you live in countries where the cost of living

00:31:04 Jackie O.
isn’t necessary, as high as like, you know, some places in the developing world. And truly that’s like my secret. But the same time, I mean,

00:31:12 Jackie O.
I probably could live in a Europe or, you know, some parts of Africa is all Africa isn’t cheap, like how people think it is. And we’ll probably spend um 2021 at least part of it in any in East Africa and eventually making our way to West Africa. Because for me, it’s also important that one Ruth learn you’re about because that is her indigenous native language. And two, I want her to see the place like our ancestral home village, right where 500 years ago people her very same last name were living, and that’s not ah, gift that many black people from America have, and So s so. I really want her to be able to go there and see it and see people who look just like her. Um and we’re actually related to her, like Justin cousins, etcetera, etcetera like I want I want her to know that part of herself. So that’s very important to me. And the good thing about the kind of lifestyle we lead is because when I was in the U. S, like my business expense, I’m not necessary. Wasn’t a credit card person or any of that. I didn’t have that sort of that. But I did have student loan that, like I went to law school. Like

00:32:10 Jackie O.
Like you go to law school, you’re gonna graduate with $80,000 worth of that easily. And living abroad has, like, affording me the opportunity Just be chipping away, chipping away, chipping away because, like, I’m only spending

00:32:22 Jackie O.
even a month. We were when we were traveling, traveling right now And like I’m traveling lavishly because again,

00:32:28 Jackie O.
um, maybe, you know, there’s some people who are over 40 who are like they like roughing it and like hard beds. And that ain’t me, girl e u. That ain’t worried we’re in my life. I don’t do hostels. Um, yeah, I need hot water. I don’t care how hot it is. Outside. I need hot water. I need flushing. Told us. Now I’ve done all that other stuff. That uncomfortable stuff. It was cute and it could be exotic. But right now where I am in my life and when I’m traveling my baby, I just wanna be comfortable. I need a place with a tub which can be hard to find, like can be hard to find My daughter She’s not in the shower, She’s not. She’s not in showers eso and that could be hard. It can actually be hard to find places with Tubbs because that’s a bit like a western style tub. That’s very Western concept. But like because now I’m in a position where, like, that’s what I want. So I pay to get it and I find it. And the good thing also about living in developing world if you got cash is king. And if you got money, you can get what you want.

00:33:25 April G.
Yeah.

00:33:26 April G.
Yeah, that’s good. Um, where is Okay? So you said a few things. One definitely outsourcing. Um e need to dio Ah, lot more of that. And completely aside, not really part of your story, but kind of where

00:33:41 Jackie O.
you go to law school. So with the University of Pittsburgh school, Okay,

00:33:45 April G.
I went to U C. Davis Law School s o not practicing either. Um, e I have I have all that debt I still have all that day e so working at it. Still chipping, chipping away, chipping, chipping away. Um, where is the least expensive but best lifestyle that you’ve experienced?

00:34:10 Jackie O.
It just I mean it truly, like all depends where we’re headed to Mexico City. Next, we’re headed Mexico, probably in, like, the next two weeks. Mexico City is by far one of my favorite cities in the world. Yes. I mean, it’s truly, like, just amazing. It has a population that leg lego stuff. So, like, some Mexico City is probably 20 to 23 million people. Uh, but it’s just so cosmopolitan and so dynamic. And, um, it’s expensive from Mexico, but it’s not expensive for, you know, again coming from like the Bay Area, which is completely, completely recalibrate how you think of, like, prices. So, um, like you could But you could still there you could get, like, a to baton for, like, 1200. Okay, expensive. That’s when I say top of the line. Like not talking about like,

00:34:57 Jackie O.
yeah, I’m very Inter comfort e It was people like 1200. That’s how myself, like blah, blah, blah. I’m like, No, when I say that, I mean, like, service department doorman like pool?

00:35:11 Jackie O.
Yeah, less market space. Yeah, like the works like, um so And that probably for the quality of living that you get. Um, you actually are doing really, really like well, and there’s just everything, like, there’s five star dining. There’s like there’s a rodeo drive. So if you’re in that and you get like for me, though, one of the important things is that even though I like to live well, I still I very rarely hang out in expat circles like I just

00:35:39 Jackie O.
I have a group of friends who are very like cosmopolitan and travel the world sometimes in the same city. Sometimes we’re not, but for the most part, like

00:35:48 Jackie O.
here in in 10 Pedro, everybody like my whole community or all indigenous Mayan people, for the most part, like there e mean my daughter speaks, Um, the indigenous Mayan language here is to to Hill, which I could say a couple words and that’s it, girl. And it’s so hard for me like it’s like a

00:36:08 Jackie O.
I tried girl. I really do like Spanish. I got it like I could get. I could do whatever I want in Spanish, but to me, that’s also like, important. Like I didn’t actually leave the United States to recreate my like us lifestyle. Like I wanted Thio immerse myself in like, other cultures. Yeah, So I’m I’m very, very, very adamant about, like I go like, well, pre Corbett. Now, I don’t like it all my food delivered

00:36:32 Jackie O.
Andi like you don’t gotta be. This fancy is like uber eats and door dash and all that fans I was going

00:36:36 April G.
to say, Do they have that down

00:36:37 Jackie O.
there? They do have They do have a guy that you just said the text message to and tell them what you want and he gets on his little bike and goes on and gets it for you. It’s the same concept, just not all the technology.

00:36:49 April G.
Oh, that That sounds wonderful, because you probably get exactly what you want every single time to

00:36:53 Jackie O.
exactly everything goes, have so you know it. It works. But you know, I enjoy going to like I love markets. It’s hot and it’s hectic and chaotic cause they could be I love, like, getting in there and, like, haggle, I’m again. I’m also Nigerian. Like this is what we do like

00:37:10 Jackie O.
if you tell me it’s just $10 I’m gonna get you down to to trust. Yeah, OK. Eso No, it’s just it’s just it’s for me. That sort of stuff is like, fine. And then I also like I love art. Um, like I love like I’m the woman who washes my clothes is also a weaver. So I take weaving lessons from her twice a week. I’m weaving my own like this is traditional shirt. I’m leaving my own. Uh, yeah, so no, it’s just for me, and she doesn’t actually speak Spanish at all. I mean, she speaks a little Spanish and mainly, like most older people here, don’t speak Spanish because I never went to school. Um, s o they speak their indigenous language. But for me, that’s like it’s fun. Like e just love it like I love. I love my daughter hanging with, like the other little kids on the beach. And most little kids, like their parents, speak to him. Especially now. The government has really made a priority for indigenous Children along indigenous languages, right? Like you can lost Spanish anytime. Eso It’s just it’s just for me. It is that’s just so much fun. I love that I love exposed to my daughter that I love the fact that there are both black and brown people here in Guatemala, which was also very important for me, that my daughter see people who look like her on DSI. That and not also because for me, it was also very important that her definition of what blackness is is not limited. It’s not boxing and that she sees it like there. I remember, you know, when I was in like, high school,

00:38:40 Jackie O.
people in the block not understanding that there were black people, spoke French.

00:38:44 Jackie O.
Uh huh.

00:38:47 Jackie O.
So, no girl,

00:38:50 April G.
listen. Experience and exposure exposure means so much, you know, when they say, you know, black skin or black culture or black, uh,

00:39:01 April G.
imagery matters. That’s why because when you don’t see it. You don’t know. You don’t know what other people can do. And you think at all black people speak English or Swahili?

00:39:13 Jackie O.
Yes. Exactly. So it was s O like all those things were just It was just so important. Um, and also like when I when I

00:39:26 Jackie O.
made the decision, even leave at what, 13 or 14 When I was thinking, you know, like, us is gonna be my permanent home. I will flow in and out of it, but I will never live there all the time. Um, I also got to see, understood, like us privilege and also understood white privileged, because I think those are two separate buckets. There’s white people privileged and how they just galloping around the world being Hello, white, um, on. Then you got, like, American privilege, which is like, you know, when people like, see my last name, right, and they’re like, we got a scammer alerts camera alert and then here my US accent and see my blue passport. Then things changed a lot like doors open for me, right? And I completely recognize that privilege because I see you in the light bulb switches in people’s eyes and like, Oh, she’s not a prostitute. She’s an American. Oh, that’s that’s where they go. Their mind goes, Go not a refugee. She’s an American, right? Like and it’s just complete, like doors open. Like all of a sudden, people are like, Oh, like beyond say, like, you know, her like, yeah,

00:40:29 April G.
all its black people know each other i

00:40:31 Jackie O.
e Yeah, but like I because I’ve been doing this for such a long time, and I’m seeing that and I can I can almost like clockwork like see it like I could even see when, like, white Americans in particular. Like when they see me and my daughter like, Oh, like you’re here from America,

00:40:49 Jackie O.
you travel.

00:40:53 Jackie O.
Uh, but so I am very, very conscious about not traveling like a colonizer, right? Like I’m very, very conscious because I do recognize that, yes, there’s lots of anti blackness. This is racism all over the world. But there is definitely a privilege that comes with being an American, right? And there’s a privilege that comes of being an American with money.

00:41:13 April G.
Yeah,

00:41:14 April G.
well, that was one of the things that I realized when I was in when I was in France. So, um, even though this was 20 plus years ago, the two things that I did which is very similar, was I didn’t really like I mean, Paris was okay, but I really like the small cities. We went to much better. And even in Paris, it wasn’t. We tried not to say like downtown. We, you know, went to clubs and bars, like on the outskirts that were a little bit more just local and native. Um, And then what I noticed was even though at the time I could actually speak pretty fluid French, um, I realized I got a lot better treatment than most Americans did because

00:41:54 April G.
Parisians especially, do not care for the American attitude. Um,

00:41:59 April G.
and ones who clearly spoke English would pretend not to speak English. Too rude Americans. And so they go, huh?

00:42:09 April G.
No, no, no.

00:42:11 Jackie O.
On. You knew they they had just come and talk to me in English. So I knew they spoke English and they were just No, no, no, no,

00:42:18 April G.
no. They’re like pointing there like here. Just look at the Esso. They It just was something that just it seemed to bring them joy to irritate the Americans because I’m like you’re in another country. And then for some reason you think yelling in English is somehow going to make them understand English.

00:42:40 Jackie O.
Yeah, I just get louder with it. Let’s just because that that improves comprehensive skills. When you just scream people on Get impatient. Okay, Yeah, exactly. Yeah, so yes. So for me, that’s just that’s just so important, and I just I just love it. And I feel like I get in the culture in ways that like and that’s another reason why we still traveled to write. I like to get deep in the culture, and I really like to understand things and leave people’s traditions etcetera, etcetera, And I don’t You don’t get that when you’re just in a place for, like, two weeks. You don’t get that when you don’t really making a non honest effort to understand, like the language. Like I say, I’m not good at Super Hill. I could say something, but I’m like, man, if I could really just even get like elementary Suitor Hill down like that would be just win a completely different level. What that would open me up to in terms of who I’d be able to have conversations because even now when I you know, I say my little words. I’m negotiating the market because the market like if you do your numbers and Super Hill girls, just watch them Prices fall, fall e now just point. They know Lee, right? Like especially like my daughter, Because, like, even late least pre pandemic her nanny took her everywhere. And it’s only a town of 14,000, right? So everybody black girl And they know like my nanny Karen Little girl around

00:43:54 Jackie O.
eso It’s just like people just lose their minds. Like like my daughter is like a celebrity. In fact, my landlord one day he was like, How long have you lived here? Because it seems like you live for, like, 2030 years. Like the way people know you. And I’m like,

00:44:08 Jackie O.
No,

00:44:09 Jackie O.
you just friendly and I like it. Yeah, just friendly. I like it. I like to like, Look, I’ll go back and forth to you by living Atsuto Hill. I’ll go back and forth of you in Spanish like we could talk. We could shoot it like we can shoot a bat and talk about whatever. Like I’m not shy, like 25 years. 25 years and years of doing this like you can’t Shyness just goes out.

00:44:28 April G.
Yeah. I mean, I would imagine to really enjoy it. You have tow talk to people, and you have to go out there and you have to meet new people. If you show up in a brand new community, you have thio. So I have another

00:44:40 Jackie O.
question for,

00:44:42 April G.
um What was it? The most surprising place. Like you had idea of what the place was going to be. And it surprised you, good or bad.

00:44:51 April G.
It just was not what you were expecting.

00:44:55 April G.
I

00:44:56 Jackie O.
would probably say Colombia. Okay.

00:44:59 Jackie O.
I just didn’t expect Colombia to be as black as it is. Oh, and that that was my own ignorance. I just I and most of the time I do a lot of research when I go into countries. But here I am taking me and my daughter to Colombia, and I look and I’m like, everybody’s black on When you think about like Colombia, you think like Shakira, Shakira, not She comes from Middle Eastern heritage, like her family immigrated Colombia. But,

00:45:26 Jackie O.
um, like I’m like, this is the blackest

00:45:32 Jackie O.
things.

00:45:32 April G.
A black of this, uh, Latin country there is,

00:45:35 Jackie O.
huh? Like, this is black, like, you know, know about in Brazil. Because everywhere I go in the world, people always think of Brazilian. Um, right. But I also think that because you know, your blood, like your people in some ways are very similar. But I’m looking here, and I’m like, Well, clearly, some of my cousins came here too, because, um,

00:45:53 Jackie O.
hello. I was like, Ruth,

00:45:57 Jackie O.
Ruth, we might be in Colombia for when these borders open again. We might be in Colombia for, um but no, it was true. That was something I just didn’t expect. But I will say on in that I expect I would expect the food to be a slightly more flavorful. I wasn’t in love with Colombian food, like I thought they would be able to, like, throw down. And they did well, but like

00:46:20 Jackie O.
there’s other parts of diaspora could definitely, um, crushed Colombians when they come from when it comes to food. If you’re Colombian, don’t come from me. Don’t come from me. Just sending the rest of all that. That’s a good Colombia food. You’re gonna talk about me like we’ll be apart. Talk about I’m just saying, like, this is what Hubble pay you. Okay,

00:46:38 April G.
so, um,

00:46:41 April G.
Visa, how does that work? How did the slow travel work with your passport?

00:46:46 April G.
I have no idea. I have never traveled for any length of time. So how does it work when you say you want to go? You’re an American and you want to go to another country? How does can you just do that? Or do you need special permission?

00:47:00 Jackie O.
So it’s true. Truly know there are some Americans. We just do it like go to Mexico. There’s a whole bunch of Americans who just like one day Mexico decided to crack down on illegal immigration. Um, they’d be sending a lot more people back to America and America’s ever sent back Thio Mexico. Uh, but eso most places have, like, at least like a tourist visa will get you like 90 days, right? And a lot of country, for instance, Guatemala has ah, 90 day tourist visa, which you could do a border run and just get it renewed. Or you can just send your passport or go to the capital and get a another. I think 60 day extension. Okay, on that, um And then at the end of the extension, you just go and do like a border run. And most people just do a weekend trip to some

00:47:47 Jackie O.
bordering country. Or don’t go back home. Like if if you’re in Guatemala City, which I’m not. But if you’re in Guatemala City, you can fly in Houston for E think of 2.5 hour fight. Onda Flight is under 100 bucks. So if you wanna go shopping for the day, people like, let me just go shopping for the day at some big you know, everything’s bigger in Texas. Let me go shop, Let me go shopping for the day and, um, in Houston. And then, um, let me just come back, like, go in the morning, Come back. You don’t have to be gone 24 hours, or you could just literally tag and tag out. Um, so that is what a lot of people do. Now, The beautiful thing about this, this digital nomad lifestyle is becoming more and more mainstream is that there are also a lot of countries that have, like, one year visas or digital nomen visas, Which means you can stay sometimes a year, sometimes longer on a visa, as long as you’re not actually like working in the country when I say working, like working, taking a job away from someone who’s there, Um,

00:48:46 Jackie O.
And then, um, you just, like have to find ways to support yourself. And if you have a remote job where you’re getting paid US dollars like

00:48:55 Jackie O.
you can pretty yeah, it’s not that big of a deal And then other places you can. Still, there are different types of visas that you can do, like you could just like, figure it out if you’re somebody. If your US citizen who’s over 55 like you’re pretty much in all of Central America, they have some sort of retirement visa. Yeah, E yeah, and and the requirements are pretty low. I mean, they range from being like 1500 of Mom to $2500 a month, which is, you know what some people are getting in Social Security and like if they have a pension, you know, if you come from that generation, which I don’t um um then it’s pretty easy to meet the financial thresholds of that. And the beautiful thing about that is even if you got like,

00:49:36 Jackie O.
I don’t know. But it’s just you and I talking girl talk, nobody else. Listen, the beautiful thing about that is, if you have a mama are or a daddy or somebody who is over 55 who meets those requirements at 1500 what you do is you get them to get their visa, and then they can sponsor people so they get their permanent residency and they just want you to come on over. And maybe they come visit you once every three months and, you know, keep their little residency card Good. But you live in.

00:50:05 Jackie O.
You doing well, you don’t hear that for me, but I’m sure

00:50:11 April G.
a lot of other people have to use that. Other

00:50:14 Jackie O.
people have done that. Uh, look, I just hurt. And then there are people, you know, Um and there’s also people people who are really into, like world school in world school and people that are still fertile in the sense of they they’re still having Children like it’s not uncommon for somebody, for instance, to go to Panama to go to Colombia, Onda have a baby there, Okay? Because the baby will still be a U. S. Citizen. But there also be a citizen of that country, and that baby can actually sponsor them.

00:50:44 April G.
Wow. Okay, so it’s the reverse of what most Americans think. You know, people come to the U S. For okay, so

00:50:52 Jackie O.
there’s a lot of different ways that people, like, figure out to make it work. But the key is one just identifying the country you want, and then just seeing what the visa requirements are because there’s always a way you can, you know, figure out, figure out how to how to get there, even if it’s just a tourist visa and just don’t visa runs. And in fact, like once you get into the culture like you could just give somebody somebody, you trust your passport and they just do the visa run for you. Oh, yeah, there’s companies to do that to, like again. This is like nobody else. Listen, Thio

00:51:26 April G.
man, I mean, especially with the upcoming election you’re making me consider this like I mean, we could do four different places for four years and, you know, just keep going, keep it pushing, and you know, find a different lifestyle. So let me ask you this. You were talking about, um, unschooling, homeschooling and world schooling. Can you explain to the audience what all of those mean?

00:51:56 Jackie O.
Okay, So I am a big proponent of world schooling and world’s going Is whole communities the world schooling the whole black world schooling community and those air people who use the world to teach their kids right? So their kids don’t go to traditional schools. But I will say that there are schools all over the world organized by world schooling families. So, for instance, there’s Bali. And just because there’s a lot of global families, their Bali, there are a lot of world school. So that means kids that whose families travel full time may becomes the Bali for three months. Thio, go to this school, which is fine because the school is the world school. So you can come in and out and they kind of much more for, like, the socialization. But like you learned from like the world, right? So, like some kids, like, I know a family who spent a year in Korea and their kids studying Korean culture, like sure the letter K like the youngest one, like study the letter K and everything related to like the letter A and s, I guess, to South Korea, they weren’t in North Korea. Um, but there are so many just different options. And you truly just use the world to, like, educate your kids. So it’s not Your kid is sitting down, although you may have a now our day where they’re doing like algebra. But instead you may take your kid like diving and you’re using like that happens a lot of calculations. Why you gotta be up to calculate how much oxygen you need blah, blah, blah. But you’re practically applying those skills toe like the life you’re leading, right, like you’re talking about like marine biology. But you’re learning by being in the Maldives for like a year or four weeks or however long you want to spend it. So there’s a people who just travel the world with their Children, and they teach them that way. So they’re learning language. You’re learning like culture, but they’re also just learning just practical, like about like the world if you want. If you want to raise a young conservationist like and you haven’t seen environmental degradation in the way that it’s happening at some of you know, the shorelines across the world. Then you take your kids of that and they get the experience and see it. You take him to see the sea turtles and, you know, to understand, like their their migration process, the, um, their migration process. And then even, just you know what is happening and why their numbers are dwindling in the world. And so that is what one of the things s. So I do a mix of my daughter. She’s only too. But we do a mix of four schools, and my daughter, on average, spends between four and five hours outdoors on truly. It’s just like in free play, like she doesn’t have. She doesn’t have toys. She just has, like so my daughter can pick up anything like a thick shells. She got outside.

00:54:22 Jackie O.
Oh, yeah, she’s good, like buckets of water, like we’ll do like different. Sometimes I put water in different like buckets and different like temperature, but she’ll be on about on the beach all day, just just playing on then, just like a mix of like, well, you know we’ll go, we’ll go to like the market A beautiful thing again about living in a country that is truly like child century. Is that like they let her, like, pick up stuff like if she picks up a mango and bites into it?

00:54:49 Jackie O.
No. Holla like nobody’s getting on like stress And what holiday is your but like no worries. Um, like nobody’s nobody’s getting a stress like we talked about. Like, this is a mango like this man is like selling a mango like we just, you know, we just do things like that. We just experienced things I took her. We were in, like, Honduras, and we went to like the pyramids and, um, in Honduras. And, you know, we talked about, like, just building and like that, the whole the whole shaped like a pyramid. I mean, she’s still young, so we’re not getting in super super complicated stuff. But, like, now point out like a pyramid. If, like she sees it like, she kind of gets like that. That whole that whole concept.

00:55:27 Jackie O.
Okay, Yeah, unschooling. So on schooling is and my my cousin is actually a big proponent in school, and she home school slash unschooled her daughter. So, for instance, her daughter right now is really into, like anime. So her daughter herself and she’s eight. I think she just turned eight or nine. Is teaching herself all about like anime like That is her lesson, one of her lessons and what she’s teaching so truly unschooling. His Children get to dictate what they wanna learn. Um, but they learn it

00:55:58 Jackie O.
and like she goes out, she I mean, she is amazing like artists, and she reads books about anime. I mean, it’s pretty like, Amazing what when kids are interested in stuff, how much how deep they could go into it and like how I can connect to, like, a lot of different things, because I mean, even, like when you think about art and design, there’s a lot of there’s a lot of, like math and geometry and all that stuff. Definitely there’s

00:56:21 April G.
emotionality is Sochi

00:56:23 Jackie O.
Exactly, And like you always see when somebody’s a trained artists and not when they start drawing the human body and you’re like, Oh, yeah, you don’t take any sort of like anatomy, your proportionality class at all. I think what my

00:56:35 April G.
son my son is also very much into anime. So we’re looking at possibly sitting him for a gap year over to Japan. Yeah, and that was his biggest struggle when he got to that because he’s self taught. So you, when he got toe like drawing hands, he would draw great body, even very proportional. I mean, you know, animals isn’t quite proportional. It’s a little different, but

00:56:59 April G.
by anime style was very proportional except for the hands. And so that was like a good six months of him, just like drawing and redrawing and un drawing and trying to get that hand

00:57:09 Jackie O.
look correct. What is that level? It’s that level of like discipline and, like understanding, right? Like even, you know, I have another friend whose sons really in the like rap music, which I don’t have a problem with. Like, it’s fine. You know, I enjoy a good, like rap song here and there, but I’m like, having like if you’re going to study rap, you wanna be a rapper, study rap like No, the hair your rap. Like you’re able to understand it, be ableto under, like, see like you know, you know the different word plays like I mean, there’s whole courses on like J C and like all those things and what the what? These two masters are able to do it like words. So, Andi, that’s what unschooling really is about. It’s like taking what kids are interested in and just let him run with it and, like, learn it and study it like there’s so much about the English language that you can learn from rap.

00:57:52 April G.
Nice. Okay, well, is there anything else you’d like to add?

00:57:57 Jackie O.
I don’t know. I feel like you’ve covered a lot. I would just say that any any parent out there, any person out there, not even a parent, no matter what kind of what your age is, age range is like,

00:58:09 Jackie O.
just be open to the possibility. Like, if this is something that you want to do, just be open and just take steps toward it is people think it’s so intimidating, I think something you have to be super wealthy to be able to do. No. I wasn’t broke when I did it. Like No, but I do know I do know people who were. And I do feel like that when you start setting your intentions to something right? That’s how you manifest things. And, uh, even when I’m working with my one on one clients, one things once they make the decision that yeah, this is something I can and I am going to do. Don’t know exactly how I’m going to do it. Then doors just start opening. But you just gotta be willing to walk through him when opportunity comes and say okay, like I’m going to do this and to just ignore the naysayers because, like your life insurers to be lived, like when you hear people say, don’t do that, don’t go to any blood flying like black people. They ain’t gonna blend together on all the other stuff that comes out of people’s mouths. That’s their own fears and insecurities. And you can’t let those become doors because, like, yes, bad things can happen to your broad like, yeah, I’ve been like pickpocketed, and that’s pretty much you haven’t called it inward to, but like, Oh, that’s happened to be in America, right? And still, I was still standing and, like you figure like, what’s the worst thing that could happen to you, like for me when I always did. You know, my self assessment. Like, what’s the worst thing? That pretty much worse thing that happened to me. I could be like that broke and I have to come home living my mama. Oh, well, my mom is not a horrible person, right? Right? Yeah, I just thought all over again, right? I’ve been here before, so

00:59:40 April G.
been to the bottom. I can climb my way back to the top.

00:59:42 Jackie O.
Yeah, and in the meantime, you’ve learned so much and you think of like, Oh, you know, people have great stories to tell, right? There’s always been some sort of trials and tribulations. There’s always been some sort of fear that they had to overcome some mountaintop that had toe climb and get over. So, yes, every day will not be perfect. And it won’t be like your tour museums. And sometimes it’s just gonna be super like boring, like is raining all day. You’re just sitting at home like chilling, but like, that’s life, right? But But what for me? When I made the conscious decision of doing it’s just I didn’t want to be on a hamster wheel anymore. Like I don’t wanna be on a hamster like I don’t want to just be living from paycheck to paycheck. I don’t want to come home every night and just be exhausted and really not be able to spend any sort of quality time with my daughter or even quality time with myself, like I don’t I did a lot of things. I enjoy it when I lived in San Francisco. But, like, now, like what? I’d be taking like a wave in class, like

01:00:37 Jackie O.
getting on my paddle board every morning and taking my daughter out and her little her little life best. And like, probably not just because my my lifestyle like why I couldn’t live that close to the water in the Bay Area, right? Like, yeah, so

01:00:50 April G.
not you could have.

01:00:52 April G.
We went to my husband, got, uh, went to the final round in a job interview out, and we ended up, out in, um

01:01:00 April G.
uh,

01:01:02 April G.
in outside, out by Walnut Creek. And so we went out there and we were looking at places. A three bedroom, three bedroom home to rent was $3500 a month, and we’re not even in the city. This is well outside the city and it was

01:01:21 Jackie O.
like, Yeah, like that’s like, outside of Oakland.

01:01:24 April G.
Yeah, Yeah, that’s a nice little little John. And it was still $3500 a month, and I just I was like, we need more money. You’re gonna have to make a lot more for us to move here, because this is this is an expensive place to live on, and you’re tripling our you’re tripping, tripling even. Just our base mortgage costs. Yes, with the rent. So forget gas because I already know California gas is more expensive. So when you start compounding all those things when you move anywhere, you know, you really think about how much travel you’re doing. So, like, here, Um, we need a car to go everywhere. You probably walk a lot more places because it’s only a town of 14,000. So there’s probably not a lot of gas or if any gas that you use on any kind of regular basis, um, and those air things those are really important things Thio think about. So, um, I really appreciate having you on.

01:02:21 April G.
And, um, can you tell us where to find you?

01:02:26 Jackie O.
Yes. So you can visit my website, which is www dot the Jackie o life dot com. And Jackie spelled J A C k e. And then, oh, like the letter o, um, life dot com. And that’s also my instagram handle the Jackie O life.

01:02:44 Jackie O.
Andi confined me there. You can find me on Twitter as well.

01:02:47 April G.
All right, That sounds great. Thank you for coming on.

01:02:51 Jackie O.
Thank you. This was awesome.

End of transcript.

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